HEATHER EWING: The CRE RUNdown

Ep. 66 Laura Dohanes - The Art of Exit Strategy: Tax Planning Beyond Numbers

• Heather Ewing, CCIM • Season 1 • Episode 66

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In this episode, Laura Dohanes shares how her early passion for reading contracts evolved into a nationwide tax planning practice serving investors and business owners. With experience defending over 3,000 IRS audits, she emphasizes why planning your exit before making an investment is critical and how it can protect you from costly tax pitfalls.

Laura also explores how AI can elevate, not replace, professional judgment, and delivers practical advice on managing risk, making grounded decisions, and preparing for the worst-case scenario before jumping into real estate or business ventures.

Her story is a reminder that real success isn’t just financial, it’s about passing on wisdom and building a legacy of critical thinking.

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Heather:

Welcome to Heather Ewing, the CRE Rundown. I am your host, Heather Ewing, and today. I have none other than Laura Donis, Laura welcome.

Laura:

Yes, thank you for having me. Heather, Beautiful day.

Heather:

Definitely, and from what I understand, you are across the country working right now.

Laura:

I'm across the ocean at this moment, but, yeah, I'm coming back home. I've been away for two months and you know as nice it is to travel. There's no place like home, so you know. I'm looking forward to come back on US soil next week. So yeah, absolutely.

Heather:

Perfect. Well, we've been connecting through LinkedIn for about a year year and a half and I know you have amazing tax strategies and that's really your expertise. Share with our audience a little bit more about your background, who you are about your background, who you are.

Laura:

Yeah well, I am a CPA, who you know. I think tax found me more than I found in the tax world. You know I loved law more than anything else and you know, if someone would ask me how did I begin, I'd probably begin when I was 10, 12 years old, reading contracts and, as boring as it sounds, that was very attractive to me. For some reason I got so pulled into reading the contracts, like purchase agreements or buy-sell agreements. You know my dad was in all kinds of businesses and purchasing and all that, so that for me was pleasure to just read the contracts, which sounds so boring. So you know, obviously, contracts, which sounds so boring. So you know, obviously I got into the accounting world at a very, very young age and I got into tax, probably by accident. I was just fascinated. I came to the United States about 25 years ago and the tax world just pulled me in and I got a second job and then I got another job. It's like, oh, this tax world is just more fascinating and most fascinating. And I got into representing business owners and investors into tax audits, which is such an amazing field and I find that very few CPAs or tax preparer of any kinds, have that experience and the knowledge of how do you defend the position, which kind of bridge between the legal aspect of what I love and the accounting and tax world right and getting into how do you defend a position. After about 3,000 cases face-to-face with the IRS, I realized that I want to be on the other end of the road where we can project what we want to do and we can project the defendability of your position before you even go into a contract, before you even get into a deal, before you even buy the investment, before you make that decision. So I know it was a very long answer, but it's a great deal because once you understand that, you can project what your outcome and what your exit would be from the beginning. That's why I get attracted to all of this. So you know, we've built a virtual firm throughout the United States serving clients all over the US and just doing that tax planning, which is looking ahead and projecting the exit.

Laura:

If I'm buying a building, how am I going to exit? If I'm buying a business, how am I going to exit? If I get married, how am I going to exit? If I get married, how am I going to exit. That was a joke, um, you know, but there's always an exit, like there, the joke or not, there's always an exit. People don't realize it because you can exit on your terms or you can exit because you have to exit and you're not ready. So, regardless, I mean, I think the only one we don't have an exit is kids. If someone has an exit for kids, I know, I know that crossed the line.

Heather:

Yeah, I know that crossed the line a little bit.

Laura:

It's just one of those things because you keep investing, investing, investing and there's just no payback. Maybe I'm still in the trenches, who knows if somebody has seen the growth and they're actually. We'll see. We have hope. Great, that never leaves us. That's the journey, yeah.

Heather:

Definitely Well, and I think what you mentioned too is I've always said you have to have the end in sight before you begin Any type of rigorous planning. You really want to be effective. You want to utilize your energy, your time, your resources in the best way. So I love that you take that vantage point and lens on it. How did you get into, you know, the mindset for tax?

Heather:

right Because like you said, there's not many young kids that are intrigued by reading these reports and different things like that. What do you think it is about? Mindset.

Laura:

Not only that sparked your attention as a young child, but has brought you to where you're at, helping people all across the nation yeah, well, um, I think we have to kind of take two pieces and I had a conversation um, today, um, and it was very interesting that some people you have to, you have to understand yourself and some people never get the understanding of who they are, what they really want, what triggers them. And, um, maybe I'm a more of a logical type of personality and, as a person, I don't get, you know, aroused by the adventure necessarily of going and, you know, jumping or bungee jumping or doing, like, you know, going off road, it's not really, you know, giving my adrenaline, and for myself, the adrenaline is like oh, this is a new business model, this is an investment model. You do this and you get like compound interest. Are you kidding me? Is that the most amazing? So, call it nerd, call it whatever you, you know we might call it Like that's what sparked my interest as a kid.

Laura:

And I'm looking at my business owners because I'm serving business owners and I'm serving the investors that are building businesses. We have to understand that if you don't have that mental like attractiveness to the numbers or doing the math, or this model or the statistics of what's going to happen, you have to realize where you need to hire the right people or partner with the right people. So I mean, will everybody have the same mindset of doing the calculations and just doing the nerdy stuff? I enjoy it. It just sounds very boring. It's not boring to me, like I get mentally aroused by oh, this is so cool, this is a new law. How amazing this new law is. How many people can you go for a coffee chat and having that conversation? Right, right, that's where they're like.

Heather:

Thank God for Laura.

Laura:

But, but it's, it's and it's, it's not. It's so beautiful because what I realized is that understanding that we have limitations allows us to partner with the right people. If I'm going buying a piece of real estate, I'm not going to go and buy my own real estate. I have a list of what I want and I'm going to go to the right person who can get the thing done for me. I just came, I was telling you, I came from a site. They're building right now a new building and we went to see. You know it's like the whole work in progress. You know they're on the fourth level of build and all of that, and I was looking at it. I went with the list yeah, I want this, this, this. Do I need to be nerding on the? How do you build? What do you put this? How many outlets? How's the electricity? What kind of purpose do you need? I don't really care, it's not my thing. That's somebody else's hotspot where they can shine.

Laura:

So I believe that we, you know in the whole mindset is understanding what makes you happy and what gives you the most joy. That's where you can really have the highest impact. Because if I would do, I don't know how somebody can do this. Just for what? For money? It just doesn't make any sense.

Heather:

I don't I don't think it's possible to your point when you look around.

Heather:

That's where I say some people are dead in the eyes and anytime, whichever city that people typically finish their work day it's 5, 530 here in Madison, wisconsin, but you'll just see it like the eyes are glazed over and they're physically breathing, but they are so tapped out and I think that's the unfortunate thing is what you're sharing, too is it's all a story that everyone plays in their head and it does require a lot of energy.

Heather:

It requires a lot of suffering, really, which I think is unfortunate. So I love that you identified it early and that remains true for you of your area of expertise, and I agree, laura, that each of us individually, I feel like we have a duty to ourselves and all of life to really understand who we are, what we are, align that and to really serve at our highest function, Because otherwise, if you think about it, you're shorting yourself and everyone else and not living to your potential. So I think that's such a huge point. I appreciate you bringing that up With everything that's happening and you think of AI, right? How do you see that affecting taxes and what you do?

Laura:

Well, I love it, you know, for one, it just makes things easier. And the same way, when things are becoming easier, we can slack. And I don't think AI means you're going to slack off, and I think a lot of people are saying, oh, we're going to lose our jobs. Might as well, not do anything. Might as well, just you know, just hand your tools and we're done here, whereas I see the opportunities that it can bring and, you know, kind of putting different controls in place.

Laura:

And if I'm thinking like when I learned, you know, tax preparation, we learned it on paper and it's just very interesting. It was just on paper and it's just very interesting. It was just, it was just on paper. I had to be able to do a tax return from beginning to end on paper and when it was done, I had to retroactively go and break it apart on paper. No calculators, no computer calculating the whole thing.

Laura:

Now, not that because it was not available, because that's how you understand. So once we like, for example, in our world, because we work with tax, it gets so much more complex. Now I can't imagine doing anything on paper, like it would be chaotic, but when we brought the computers in, we just had to look at the same thing from a new angle. It didn't get to be. It got to be easier on some areas. We just got to do more with what we had, and the laws are more complex. We're able to project different things in different ways. So I feel like AI is doing the same thing. It's almost like giving us. It's almost like you know we have. When you have real estate, you're selling a piece of real estate. Everybody used to have pictures. The next level is like oh, we're going to do a 3D walkthrough picture.

Laura:

Now they're giving us a drone. They're giving me the drone to see around, which helps my decision-making process so much easier, because I want to see what's next to it, like is it the forest? It's like what's around it. So AI, it's almost like now. Instead of you looking at like a sniper little thing, oh, I'm just looking at this little room, this little building. Now I have a drone view and I get to choose from each side, so it's almost like a different angle that gives you more insight on the same thing. You still have to discern. You're not going to know how to read. How many people are looking at a drone footage and they don't know oh, oh, that's like whatever sewage, oh, that's. You know, you have like different types of power, like all these different things that you could look at. People need to know how to read it, almost like you look at a Google plot. From you know up 10,000 foot view, you're not going to know Right. From you know up 10,000 foot view, you're not going to know Right.

Heather:

It's funny you mentioned that, because I had a deal recently where an attorney was trying to read the drawings and it uh, it removed the deal from the uh, from going forward and then later, you know, we were looking at it and it's like no, he read it completely wrong, so they had to bring in an architect to have it read. So, to your point, everyone has their arena of expertise and it's really important to utilize those people for their various skill sets, because it really requires a team, and I think sometimes people are under the impression that one person can do it all, and that really couldn't be further from the truth. It's handpicking that team so that you can perform at your best within each of the different facets to have a great deal, which also includes the taxes, and I think a lot of times, kind of like, the tax and the attorney are somehow at the end, and it's one of those. No, they actually need to be in the beginning as well.

Laura:

Yeah, and I'll give you an example. You know, I see people slacking off because of the AI and everybody has ChatGPT on their phones. They have it everywhere. You know, in the next year or two you're going to have the same. You have Alexa in your house. You're going to talk to GPT to tell you to find the next recipe to whatever you want to do in the house. So it's going to be everywhere. It's going to be incorporated in our daily lives and people are slacking off. I'll give you a very simple example.

Laura:

You know when somebody's looking for you know a piece of law. The slacking piece begins when you don't want to read, you don't want to digest, you don't want to think, and that's the last thing. You want to outsource. That intelligence power, whatever you want to call it, cannot think for you. You still have to be able to think. You can't outsource that, and if you're slacking off on the thinking process, you will be taken advantage of and you will be the dumbest person in the room and it's just you and your computer, and that's very sad.

Heather:

Well, I think it goes to what you said a little earlier of when you were learning of doing it all on paper.

Heather:

People need to. I firmly believe people need to keep really strong basics and I learned that when I was in karate back in the day of you. You do all the fun flips and all of those high, high, exciting types of moves, but you always need solid basics and that applies to any arena, from tax to brokerage to investing you name it and um, I agree it's going to be something that will have to be balanced and watched, and I've noticed, just even in linkedin and also some different emails, that it's like come on you, you totally copied, chad, gpt, copy paste and put it in. And um, I think, like you said, there is going to be a shakeup and then I think at some point people will also learn that they can't just copy paste and fully lean on AI. They should still utilize their mind and make it their own.

Laura:

So when I started the idea, we started on paper. When we went on the computer version, we had to put different controls in place that you had when you had on paper. When we went from having everything done on paper, we would have folders, we have controls, and controls is one measure that would you know checks and balances, and I know everybody hates that because only accountants should have checks and balances In your house. When winter comes, you have to have checks and balances. You're looking okay, am I all set? When summer comes, am I all set? There's different things in life. That you have checks and balances, it's the same way. You know when we went on electronic or we went virtual. Now we don't have a folder with a checkbox. Say you check this, I did this, I did this. So you have different controls in place to verify the accuracy, to verify data to look at, because it can still be. You know you can have errors. Human or computer, it can give you errors and it's not, because you know they're both imperfect, even though AI can give you a lot more, for you know this faster. However, the AI will just bring different controls in place and once we learn, what kind of controls do we have to put in place before we deliver data, before we can give it up, and I'll give you an example that I really really like Instead of just jumping in. And ChatGPT is a great tool. I use it all the time, I love it. I mean, what am I going to say? I talk to judging more than I talk to my husband, like right.

Laura:

So, however, um, I really believe that there are tools in place and their software, different types of components like research pieces that we we have access to and these companies have invested so much in ai and it gives you that intranet like that is doing research within the platform that they have. It's not external. That is a very secure network. I really like that. For example, I like CCH research a lot. It's just a tool in our space for tax research that if I need to look at something, it's going to look within the tax code, it's going to look within the court cases that were showing up interpretation everything is inside, not looking on all the websites that can be completely AI generated and completely, you know, false information for the public. So I think we just have to find the controls. Whatever we do, what kind of controls do we need to put in place to protect ourselves and the people we serve. It's really the most important piece, I believe.

Heather:

Definitely and along those lines, what is something else that people need to understand about tax that may be a frequent misconception or just something that you really want people to be aware of?

Laura:

Well, I'll give you a couple of things, and I love stories because I live in stories. So many people migrated. I have talked to so many couples and families just this year who left their careers, whatever it was. Um, they thought real estate is gold and we're just gonna, you know, hit a jackpot if we go in real estate.

Laura:

Real estate is very unpredictable and you know that's something that I've learned that people can make a lot one year and can make nothing the next two years. It's very unpredictable, um, but there's no, there's no, there's nothing that would stop you to invest in what you want to do, so you have to have a plan. That's my first idea is like, just because you work for somebody else doesn't mean it's going to work for you, so you have to have a plan plan A and plan B when you go into real estate. And number two that I really think a lot of people don't understand is that even the good things too much of a good thing can harm you. I've seen so many people right now who have properties in foreclosures that they have recaptured because they have bonus depreciation in 2021, 2022. Now they're foreclosed and now they have phantom income on their tax return. They pay taxes on the property they lost. That is very, very sad. So too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.

Heather:

Right, yeah that, that sounds very painful.

Laura:

It sounds very painful. So you have to have a plan and you have to be able to absorb the best case scenario and the worst case scenario. The best case I'm going to get out at 1.5 return, great Worst case scenario I'm losing it all. Can I absorb it? Can I deal with that? It's that black and white. That kind of helps you put like look at things into a perspective that allows you to make decisions in a really cold manner without being emotional about it. I think that's my two cents. Like we could be on an extreme very, very easily when we go into investments.

Heather:

Right and I think that's such an important point because I see it a lot I'm sure you do and other people do of like build it. They will come or take the leap. You know like they're really personifying. You don't like your job, you should be investing here and you'll be on the beach and you'll never lift a finger and it's suddenly the good life at the press of a button and it doesn't work that way. So I think your simple but yet profound exercise look at the upside, look to the downside, where are you from? A risk tolerance and what can you still sleep at night? With right, it's really important.

Heather:

So, as we transition to our last question, this is the big one, Laura of what does living fully mean to you?

Laura:

Well, that's a loaded question, Heather, really. And you know I like to say I live fully. And you know yes and no, you know I like to do the things that I enjoy, but at the same time, you know, I have three kids. So living fully is, you know, again involving everybody else around me. So for me is living fully means teaching my kids everything that I can like, really, if I can teach them everything that I can. And you know, some of you know, one or two of them are somewhat teachable and one is does not want to learn, which you know. God knows how that's going to end up, but there's always has to be one always.

Laura:

Every family has to have one. But the main idea for me is living fully is I need to be able to live beyond myself. If I go and make a lot of money, I spend a lot of money and just have a lot of fun. I just don't leave anything behind. I'm more of a legacy type person that just like to leave something behind and that something is investing in my kids because I want them to be equipped. I don't want them to be deceived by the society, by the laws.

Laura:

Here's a president giving a piece of law. Here's another president giving another piece of law. Here's this political party, here's another political. There's so much deception going around and it's very hard to discern what's right and what's wrong. And if I can teach them how to think, how to process information, I don't have the answers. I can tell them. This is the best way. I can only teach them how to process information, how to think for themselves and not to be deceived by the system in choosing one path or another. Yes, you can go this way, just know what's ahead, right. So my investment living fully is if I can do that for my family and I, I think I've lived a full life.

Heather:

I would agree with that.

Laura:

Because I have material. I mean how much more Like, how much more? It's just, it's a very finite road on the material section. So, living fully, what does it like I don't have any more to acquire to make me happier? But that would make me very fulfilled and I feel like I leave something behind in my kids.

Heather:

I love that. It's the gift that gives Laura.

Laura:

It's the gift that gives, so yeah, Well, perfect.

Heather:

How can people connect with you to learn more about the tax structure strategies that you have?

Laura:

Yeah, um, as a matter of fact, we're having a webinar about this one big, beautiful bill. It's very in-depth. We're going to have the webinar probably in a couple of weeks. I have a website where they can join and I think it's join. Let me give you the exact one. It's joinmycpaprocom, and they can sign up for the webinar. We'll go in a lot of different details. We're going to give examples. We're going to have some Q&A. At the end it probably will be longer than an hour because it's a big bill. So that will be great, and just join us on the webinar. I think it's a great way to see. Everybody will be affected individuals, business owners, investors In this bill. There's so much for everyone to go around, so that would be a great way to see what we're doing and to see how can you connect with us further.

Heather:

Perfect Well, Laura, thank you so much for joining me today. It was a true pleasure connecting with you.

Laura:

Yes, thank you so much for having me, heather.

Heather:

You bet.