Jason Ilstrup is the President of Downtown Madison, Inc.
(DMI), a member based non-profit working to create the best quality of life downtown for everyone. Prior to joining DMI, Jason worked in hotel management and development at HotelRED, the Iron Horse Hotel and the Madison Concourse Hotel. Before entering hospitality, Jason served as a legislative aide and legal counsel for several politicians including Rep. Martin Sabo and Rep. Barney Frank. He is also a returned Peace Corps Volunteer having served in Niger.
Jason attended Boston University and the University of Minnesota Law School. He was raised near downtown Minneapolis and is unlucky enough to be a Minnesota Vikings fan.
Jason Ilstrup is the President of Downtown Madison, Inc.
(DMI), a member based non-profit working to create the best quality of life downtown for everyone. Prior to joining DMI, Jason worked in hotel management and development at HotelRED, the Iron Horse Hotel and the Madison Concourse Hotel. Before entering hospitality, Jason served as a legislative aide and legal counsel for several politicians including Rep. Martin Sabo and Rep. Barney Frank. He is also a returned Peace Corps Volunteer having served in Niger.
Jason attended Boston University and the University of Minnesota Law School. He was raised near downtown Minneapolis and is unlucky enough to be a Minnesota Vikings fan.
Welcome to Heather Ewing, the CRE rundown, and today I have a phenomenal guest for you. It is none other than Jason Ilstrup. He's the president of DMI here in downtown Madison, jason welcome.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for having me, Heather. It's great to be here. I'm excited to chat a little more Definitely.
Speaker 1:So something we both hold near and dear to our hearts is one, downtown Madison. Two, creating even more of a community and just bringing more to the area through ourselves and through the people we connect with, and, of course, our love for running. So I wanted to jump on today and let's go ahead and let's start with with the downtown Madison. You've been president for a few years and you've really taken great strides, and not only have you done so much for our community, but you're also just a great person too. So what are some things that you're focusing as we are moving through 2023 and into 24?
Speaker 2:Great question. Well, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to be here. That's exciting to talk to a good friend. Heather and I know each other well. We see each other at Angkorra on King Street daily, almost daily.
Speaker 1:Just about yes, yes.
Speaker 2:It's, I think, both of our second offices right here downtown. We're living it. If you want to create vibrancy, well, you might as well go out and be vibrant.
Speaker 1:Get a practice speech.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I don't think I've ever said that before, but we'll go with it and we're working on a tremendous amount here in downtown. Obviously, a lot has changed since the pandemic. You know how successful our downtown's, what measures of success are downtown's, and so we're watching all of these new trends pretty clearly and I think we're starting to see some trends over the last year or so that are becoming more permanent and more office workers working not full time in the office, you know, not working five days a week, but maybe working three days a week and some sort of a hybrid format. We're seeing the increase of more people wanting to live downtown, a lot more residential. We're seeing significant development here in the core of downtown, but also in the periphery neighborhoods of downtown. We're seeing a want for being part of something vibrant and being part of an experience, and so the festivals and events that are home downtown so groups like the Taste of Madison or concerts on the square have been very successful and have seen huge, huge percentage year over year gains, and 250,000 people last year attended the six concerts on concerts on the square. Yeah, football is up and badger football and CrossFit and Ironman, whatever it looks like. So we're really seeing some very positive trends, but we it's a different playing field than we've seen in the past.
Speaker 2:And so we're taking a step back as an organization and as a partnership of all of these different downtown groups to say I think we need to really look at what the future of downtown Madison is, and us, along with the city of Madison, are spearheading a public partnership to do a strategic visioning plan for the downtown space itself.
Speaker 2:What does vibrancy look like? What does the new office look like? What does that public space look like? What's the activation and programming we need to have in that space? What is the governance of that space look like? We have several catalytic projects happening now in downtown I think we're very lucky including the Lake Minoan Waterfront, the top of State Street with two new catalytic history center and the Veterans Museum, and then the lower part of State Street where buses have been removed. So there's some big things happening and we want to understand what's the strategy and how we're going to move forward to really push our downtown in the right direction Going to bring in a national consultant and some local consultants to really look at these issues, frame it under what this new downtown looks like and then help push downtown Madison forward.
Speaker 1:And I love it, as I sometimes see you running the streets as well. It's a great way to stay connected through all these different offerings. And two I think the beauty of travel is that each time I return home from these different conventions, marathons or just travels in general, that it's nice to draw some of the comparisons, seeing how we have really just provided stellar offerings to the community of frequently free and then also bringing back some of the ideas and I love that, the 400 to 600 blocks of State Street. We do have that test promenade which we've heard the voices over the years, and I think it's really nice to have that. Of course, I would love and envision a full State Street for that, but it all starts somewhere though.
Speaker 2:Absolutely I want to second you on hold on. There we go. I knew that one was coming. I want to second you on the idea of running in cities. It is absolutely one of my favorite passions.
Speaker 2:One of my favorite things to do is, first day when you get into a city, just get out of the hotel, start running, seeing the space. I did it once in Europe, in Copenhagen. My wife got very concerned because I'd ended up running over a half marathon and I was just not intending to run. That far was probably a mistake for the rest of the vacation. But it is what it is.
Speaker 2:But you get the lay of the land, you see what's going on and helps frame the rest of your vacation. But I think most importantly for this conversation is it helps frame what projects can and can't happen here in Madison. Just last week I was in Baton Rouge, louisiana, for a rotary conference and I was able to really see the downtown in a different way admittedly a lot different way, because it was 95 and sunny when I went for my run and that was a bit shocking. But you saw some of the street treatments, in particular outside of LSU's museum, and what we could do and bring the park space and this museum space and this pedestrian space all together. I think we can take ideas and examples from every city across the country and bring them here and make Madison even better.
Speaker 1:Definitely. Well, you're a very energetic person, jason. So what I want to know, how could you tell, yeah, that's what I love about you. Yeah, what I love about you is, you know, what's interesting too is coming from the commercial real estate sector as I do. There's been a lot of talk about wealth generation and I think, especially towards the end of the year of legacy, that's also highly tied into commercial real estate. When you think of your role in recreating our downtown, right with the team of DMI and all the other people and groups that you touch, what is the legacy that you would want to leave behind in your tenure and I know it's kind of a big question, but it bubbled up and interested.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I'm not someone that always thinks in those sort of frame. That lens of legacy.
Speaker 1:But it is important.
Speaker 2:You know we want to create an economically strong, equitable, inclusive and vibrant place to live, work and visit, and if that means that more people are coming downtown, we're building more amenities that people want to visit downtown, more reason to work downtown, more reasons to live downtown, then that's a legacy that I certainly would be very proud of.
Speaker 2:You want to create a space that's sort of all things to all people. That maybe a little counterintuitive, but or said another way, angela Russell, a DMI board member, says so well you want to create soulful spaces and soulful places and soulful experiences for every soul in the community. Downtown's forever have been these incredible places where people connect and no matter what's happened the most recent pandemic, fires, wars, whatever we've been doing to downtown's, we've destroyed them many times in many places. We've always built them back up because they're great places to connect. And if we can get even more people to connect downtown, then I think we've the legacy that I've led, or their organization has led, or all of us as leaders in the downtown space, I think will be very strong.
Speaker 1:I agree completely, and it's recreating, and that's something we've been talking about for many years, and I think you know, whether people realize that or not, we are all connected. Everyone has their struggles, everyone has their wins, and I think it's really coming together through some of those different opportunities. And another thing that's been really bubbling up for me, too, is mentorship, of looking at strategy for people's, not only for their lives but also their careers, because they're interrelated. You can't separate them, and so I think there's a really neat kind of pinnacle moment that we're both at, as well as the city, of the ability to really take it and advance it into something really unique. And I think we've always had the good fortune of of Madison, of there's just a lot of people that believe in it. A lot of people put time and energy, such as ourselves and others that we know and work with, and I think we're really fortunate, because when you don't have that energy, it's like the soul of the city is not there.
Speaker 1:And it's sad to see and you experience it and know it in a heartbeat when you travel to these other cities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we certainly are not. Want for people that care about the downtown and that is such an important baseline to have. People are very proud of the Isthmus, they're very proud of the capital, they're very proud of State Street, the university, whatever. They're proud of their city many different reasons and so therefore, you've got a pretty engaged community in the downtown and I think that means we can take this downtown to the next level.
Speaker 2:I think we've always done very well on our own, but it's our feeling at DMI is we want to bring in national organizations and say, okay, let's try to be the best at X. For why, in the downtown, get ideas, just like we talked about while running? Why don't we work with consultants that really have seen, you know, big ideas work in other towns? They could work here. Plus, we also just think we need to lean on the experience of other organizations, particularly in this time of change. Downtown's are organic and they're, but they're changing significantly right now. So we need to make sure that the downtown we're building today fits for the future and fits for tomorrow, because tomorrow is just changing. Right, the nature of work is changing. The nature of people, how they communicate is changing, is changed and will continue to change how they, you know, purchase things in a retail store, all of these sorts of things. We need to stay on it and be at the top of our game to ensure that the downtown continues to thrive.
Speaker 1:And from all your travels and your experience, things of that nature, what do you think we might experience into 2425, in the upcoming years?
Speaker 2:I think 24 and 25 are big years for downtown. We're going to start to see we talked about it before but catalytic projects, some of them are going to start the History Center at the top of State Street. So at the intersection of Carroll, mifflin and State Street, we'll start construction in quarter one, now that it was just approved by the State Building Commission. That's gonna be a dynamic project that will interface so much better with the streetscape and really create this sort of one space which I think is important. And it's important to note that the top of State Street is already the number one used pedestrian intersection in the state of Wisconsin. Think about if you had buildings that better interfaced with it. That museum we're gonna continue seeing more work on a potential Veterans Museum, just kitty corner from the location. And I think at 25, you're gonna see phase one of the Lake Minona Waterfront Project begin on the causeway. It's gonna be a hard year because they're gonna take two lanes of traffic in each direction and whittle it down to one while it's construction. So I'm sorry about that but progress is hard. But I think you're going to see these catalytic projects happen. I think you're gonna continue to see more residential move into the downtown. I think it's gonna level off somewhat.
Speaker 2:I think we've seen this big peak. We track all development on DMI's website and our development tracker. You got about 7,000 units. It's cooling a little bit but it's still very strong. Right, we have the most Gen Z proportionally, the most Gen Z hires, so ages 20, basically in their 20s, moving to Madison of any city in the country. We're net ninth and we're hearing information that we might become net seven. Think about that. Right, we're the 85th, 86th, 87th biggest metropolitan statistical area by population in the country and we're in that same area as New York and Austin and Seattle. With all due respect to Madison, that's not normally where we're competing. So it's really interesting to see this young group move to the city. So I think you're gonna continue to see more residential.
Speaker 2:I also think you're gonna see more office. It's gonna be a little bit different, it's gonna take a little bit more time, but we're clearly seeing through the data in a study that I just saw by Gallup Gallup, the large surveying company about 300,000 folks over the last couple of years. They're saying last year. We now know what the new office looks like and there's certainly something called the flight to quality. And a flight to quality in office means two things. One, the quality of the building right, so class A. And when a huge proportion of downtown's office space our downtown's office space is class A, that's very good and class B, but it's also flight to quality of the location.
Speaker 2:We're seeing that office workers want to be near amenities. They want to be near right, they wanna be near the lunch spots they want to go to, they wanna be near the theaters or the sporting events after work. They wanna be connected to their friends that are already on the Capitol Square, and there's no better place to do that than downtown Madison. So I think we're sitting in a really good space for the future, although there are some warning signs. Right, they're certainly with interest rates continuing to be very high, with the cost of construction continuing to level but still be high.
Speaker 2:Those are two things that are going to certainly tamp down development. You know that better than anybody. We need to ensure that we're creating a space where everyone feels safe. We need to make sure that some of these larger parcels that haven't moved for years in development are moving, you know. So there are some things we need to be paying attention to, but overall, I think Madison's future is very bright, but we need to pay attention to what's important and we need to work on it. Hence why we're creating the strategic plan with the city of Madison.
Speaker 1:Definitely, and adding in too, for the Gen Z. What do you attribute such a great flocking to Madison? For the Gen Z.
Speaker 2:Well, if I knew the answer to that, I think I don't know that I'd be sitting here. I'd be working somewhere and making a lot more money, but I do just fine. I would say it's a couple of factors. Almost all strong economic development in the city of Madison has something to do with the University of Wisconsin.
Speaker 2:To have the state's flagship campus located in the heart of downtown. Now, with over 50,000 students, I think it's now ranked 35th or 36th in the country. It's amazing. Plus, unless people are going to college. But more and more people are wanting to go to places they seem are good value and they're gonna get a good education and you know what that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, University of Wisconsin, is it? So it all starts with that. We're seeing more of those students stay in the city. One of the greatest growing populations is that 22 to 28 population. That's why we're seeing 7,000 units being built in the downtown. It's catering towards young folks. We've also seen several companies that have a young workforce take off. I mean Epic is the obvious example of the last 10 to 15 years. They're hiring a little bit. They're hiring 4,000 people this year alone. 4,090% of them are ages 22 to 26, and only about a third of those are from the Midwest. So that means two thirds of those folks are moving from California or New York or Florida or Washington or Texas or wherever. So you're seeing that influence. You're also seeing but not just Epic you're seeing other companies like ExactSciences, ProMega and a few of these others that really have jobs that are needed by young folks engineers, creatives. We're seeing more and more of those folks here.
Speaker 2:And I think third and very importantly, is quality of life is high here in Madison. I think you still get a decent thing for your buck, although things are getting expensive and that's something we absolutely have to watch out for. But you have a high quality of life. You can get out to the lakes and onto the water very quickly. We have college sports, we have the arts. We tend to punch above our weight class and amenities because of the capital and because of the university, so there's a pretty high quality of life. Now that high quality life is not for everybody. One of the other areas we absolutely have to pay attention to is to make sure that everyone in our city has the ability to have that high quality of life. But overall, access to amenities is pretty high here, and so you're seeing folks make that choice and you're seeing them. They're voting with their feet and they're moving to the city and the highest proportion of any city in the country.
Speaker 1:Definitely. And something you had touched on too is kind of the beauty of having family raising them in this type of environment. And that brings me to the topic of balance. It's something I always love talking with my different podcast guests because everyone is very busy, they have full careers, they have full lives at home. I understand you have a newborn.
Speaker 2:So I do, I do Life changing.
Speaker 1:So how do you find balance Right? I don't think there's an exact balance. My opinion of it is that at times you're just going to kind of burn the midnight oil, but then you also take that time to kind of rust, rejuvenate, and then you go at different patterns. But what's your take on it and what have you found successful? You've got a very busy career in life.
Speaker 2:Well, I might be the worst person to ask that question. Don't ask my wife how I balance things, because it's not very well. Admittedly, I have a young baby. He's nine months old. Excuse me, but nine months old he gave me a cold. I think he's the joy of our life, but it's interesting, right when you have also never newborn. You have a big career. My wife has a very big career. You know how to find that balance and it's a work in progress, and I think you have to be willing to say no more often. I need to be willing to say no.
Speaker 2:I come from a hospitality background. I worked in hotels for a long time, worked in public service for a long time, so saying yes was the right thing to do, and my mantra is to start with yes and work to no. But sometimes I just have to say no. But I also think doing what you're doing, heather, you know taking time for yourself, running, I mean there's nothing, for me at least, and for you I think it's the same way More head clearing and to get in a different space and to go on a long run, seeing a new area, you know breathing that fresh air, getting out and about exploring something new To me. That checks a lot of boxes. That helps me relax. If anyone, though, could help figure out how to get a nine month old to sleep through the entire night, please send me a note, because that would be great. I will say sleep. People ask me why I have so much energy. I don't think I knew the answer, because I don't drink caffeine, I don't drink coffee, or anything.
Speaker 1:It surprised me. I know the answer now with it with a newborn.
Speaker 2:It's sleep. I was a regular sleeper, basically 10 to you know, 930 to 10 to 530 to 6, religiously every day, and now that I don't have that you really can see that energy sort of sat down. So sleep for me is a big one as well.
Speaker 1:Well, to your credit, I haven't noticed a difference in it. You're always very chipper and very positive, which I've always appreciated. But I agree I think being physical and getting outdoors is crucial to just mental, physical, spiritual and financial health, right? Because?
Speaker 1:it's all in a related and it does help, I know, for me to sleep. I think there's a lot of others and the head clearing of that's when I saw kind of the big deals in my mind so that I can go back with maybe a new strategy or a new idea of how to approach something, or a negotiation aspect that maybe I hadn't thought of earlier. And two, I think we were not meant to sit indoors all day, so I think, too, getting outdoors in nature, and I think it's also that creative aspect which really fuels me too. And I agree, sometimes you have to invest in the time for exercise, whatever form it might take, because of what you reap on the back end is so important.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean it could be as simple as you know, a five minute breathing exercise or doing a couple of stretches right before you go to bed. The other one I'm a huge water drinker. It's basically the only thing I drink. I think I picked this up when I was in the Peace Corps, but I just drink a lot of water and I think that helps as well to come flush things out and keep you hydrated. I mean, dehydration is well, it's the number one killer of people in the world. Right, it's some wave shape form and so, yeah, a lot of water.
Speaker 1:So the Peace Corps tell me more about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was in the United States Peace Corps from 1999 to 2002 in Niger, West Africa. So this is Africa. It's a perfect map of Africa. You're welcome for that drawing.
Speaker 1:Look at it right there, right on the northern border of Nigeria.
Speaker 2:Put it on my wall. There you go. It's been. Sadly, it's been on the news there was a coup a few months ago, but you know it was a wonderful country with a wonderful, wonderful group of folks. It was an amazing gig.
Speaker 2:You know, volunteer effort. They used to have a mantra on their website so it was the toughest job you'll ever love and that was right on. I mean it is. Whatever job I do now will never be as hard. I mean I, you know, you, I had, you name it malaria, dengue fever, giardia, amemic dysentery, whatever I had at all, and you just sort of work through it and all while it's 95, 105, 110 degrees outside in the desert.
Speaker 2:But the people are amazing and I learned so much about myself. This might seem remarkable to your listeners that know me, but I learned to slow down some and really I think I'm a little bit yeah, I'm a little bit more laid, energetic, laid back, if that makes sense, because you know you've seen some very hard, hard things. It's one of the world's poorest, if not the poorest country in the world, and it was. I just loved my time there. I love getting to know my friends and family and the village that I lived in. I would highly recommend the experience for anyone, even if you're at the end of your career. It's a really good way to retire and see the world and learn a lot about the world, but I think, importantly, also a lot about yourself.
Speaker 1:Well, and to your point, I think a lot of those different life experiences are essential and they give back so much to wherever we are at in life.
Speaker 1:And I remember when I was younger, thinking you know, earlier careers or you know even summer jobs have kind of like gosh, you know I should have been in this area or this or that. But the beauty is, in hindsight, of realizing how much all of those varied experiences, even though they might seem unrelated, really do contribute to your role here and now. And I think oh, no question For people that they would be able to draw that line. And again, you know it took me several years, but I'm very grateful to now have that understanding.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think one. I should be the last person giving people advice, but I would say the one thing I would say to young people is it's not a straight line, it's not a. There's not a there's. It's not a straight line from one thing to the next. If you want to be an accountant, do you got to do X, y and Z? It may, that might work for somebody. I would doubt it. You have to look for the through line. So there's going to be a through line and it might bend around, go left, right, center, but all of these different things you're doing have a through line to what you should be doing. It sometimes takes people longer and it sometimes can change.
Speaker 2:I'm someone that's had not multiple jobs but multiple careers. Right, I was a lawyer for a while. I worked in politics. I obviously worked in international development with B-Score. I worked in hospitality. You know a little bit in development and now you know this downtown management experience. All of those activities. There's a through line that I hope helped me be successful in this job. Whether I'm successful or not, that's an open book. You don't want to figure it out All year you're very successful.
Speaker 2:But the you know, but all of these different things. Working in politics helped me with the lobbying part of this job. Working in hospitality helps with the guest and membership services part of it. So my advice would be to take every job seriously, even if you don't think that's the right job for you, because you will get something from that experience that will help with the career that is going to make you happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree completely. And I think too of you know, when you put the hat on of something you would have shared with yourself when you were younger. I think for me too, of you know, just knowing even if it wasn't your quote, heart's calling.
Speaker 1:I've just give it 200% because in that sense, you will fully know if it's going to develop into something that it becomes something you're interested in, or, worst case scenario, I think you can, you know, appreciate the experience, thank it and know that you're going to transition into the next one. I think even more clearly, and I think too, of of really giving your all in life, because otherwise I think there's that part within ourselves, innately, that you're going to have regret. And I know something I've really been focusing on is, you know, is really living fully in a life of no regrets right? Be true to yourself, be great to yourself, others and, to just max it out, I mean, that's why you're someone that's.
Speaker 2:Have you now finished all of the marathon series?
Speaker 1:Or are you one show? I'm almost there, Jason. I did get accepted into Boston.
Speaker 2:Boston. That's right, april 15. That's it right Cause you've done you've done London, you've done New York, you've done Chicago.
Speaker 1:That was probably the hardest right To time qualify yes, cause you've got a time qualify.
Speaker 2:I mean we can all get in through raising money, which is amazing, Do not get me wrong. It helps great cause, but the time kudos to you. I think those that aren't marathoners don't understand how hard that is.
Speaker 1:And it's one of those. You know it's like for anyone that is in the running community. It's kind of like you have to time, qualify or don't go Obviously if running isn't your thing and you're always doing it, by no means you know. I agree with you too of the donations are great, but after that then it's Tokyo. So it'll be Boston and 24, tokyo 25 most likely.
Speaker 2:So yeah, is Tokyo a time qualified?
Speaker 1:No. So what's interesting is, when you run marathons overseas, you have to join in with some type of marathon group. Okay, and then it's paid, so you pay your way in. All right, well, I mean, I'm a retail and community in whichever country I visit.
Speaker 2:That's what I like to do, that's what you do. You make you, heather, make downtown Madison so much more vibrant with the amazing storefronts that you bring to downtown. You add so much energy. You are the I will call. Let's call you the queen of vibrancy.
Speaker 1:Well, I will say yes and thank you. I like that. Yeah, but you know that's where for me it's. I have such an artistic background that for me I really take a different lens to the leasing and sales and I see it as art on a grand scale, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so it's creating artful experiences through the retail that we bring in, whether it's local, regional, national. It's the restaurants you know, you think of all the great ethnicities that we have along State Street and areas. It's delightful to try some of these handmade noodles and all the other opportunities that we have to eat in so many different countries on one street. Yeah, it's recreating those experiences for people and I think that enriches lives, which enriches communities, and so I see it as a very artful part endeavor. And you've got the numbers in the real estate that that all comments, part of that cumulative package.
Speaker 2:So Well, how many streets in America do you have a Greek restaurant next to a Taiwanese restaurant, next to a Tibetan restaurant?
Speaker 1:that does not happen very often. No, no, and they're all amazing.
Speaker 2:They are. They are, yes. Now I just want to go get some of those Greek fries, that's the running yeah. Oh my God. Okay yeah, that gets to a point. The only reason I run is so I can eat whatever I want.
Speaker 1:Don't tell my doctor. I just went yesterday. I joke that I eat like a 13 year old boy when I'm in marathon training.
Speaker 2:I mean you got the amount of calories you're burning.
Speaker 1:Yes, and the cravings are amazing.
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean, I would do anything for, like you know, a sandwich, some weird sandwich in the middle of a marathon, anything for it. But yet you're just eating goo and bananas.
Speaker 1:So oh, I know, yeah, and a lot of them. Yeah, it's not always pretty, but it works Right.
Speaker 2:It does work, it does.
Speaker 1:We land this this mother ship. Jason, what is something we don't know about you that we should?
Speaker 2:I'm missing a tooth on my bottom side. That never came in. That's probably not what you're looking for. That's a great question. I'm a pretty open book. I mean I'm trying to see every division. One man's basketball team People know about that and I'm actually a relatively like. I like my quiet time. I think people think that all of the time I'm on. But you can certainly at home sometimes you just need to veg out and relax. And it's not. My motor is not going constantly, so, but it does go a lot. But I don't know that's a. I don't know one thing that I'm a Viking.
Speaker 1:That's talent to sport, something we don't know about.
Speaker 2:I mean I played a lot of tennis, screwing up as a kid, a lot, yeah. And now I just I used to tell you was tennis pro, each tennis, but I don't, I've completely given it up, completely give no that. Yeah, no, I played once this summer and then I played one more time the last 10 years before that I think I burnt out. But yes, I do. I do enjoy the sport, I like watching it, but no, I tennis. I'm a big tennis, tennis, tennis, tennis player.
Speaker 1:So I just learned something new.
Speaker 2:There you go, there you go. I don't know how good I am, I don't know how good I ever was, but I did play a lot.
Speaker 1:It sounds like the results speak for themselves, so you know, you just have to say yes and thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes and thank you Then, no, I'm not going to play with anybody on this podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes, Well, on that note, jason, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, it was really a great opportunity to have that great refresher and recap on our beautiful downtown, madison, wisconsin, and also learn more about you. So I'll see you at our next meeting.
Speaker 2:Thank you, heather, very much, and thank you for all you do for downtown Madison. We're very appreciative.
Speaker 1:My pleasure. All right, see you.